Date   

Re: Opening a second work track for BONSAI #dataliberation

 

I have started a repo with the Bonsai ontology (to the best of my understanding) as a relational database schema here: https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/schema (just a beginning, there are still issues!). I have also tried to label the Github repos with the topics "relational" and "semantic" to distinguish these two work tracks.

I think there are a number of people that want to start doing things with data, and this would be a "quick and somewhat dirty" way to get some data into people's hands. In particular, we still have quite some work to do on preparing data for linking, and on finding a consensus system model.

Data that could be added now

Storing data

We need a policy here, I don't really think it makes sense to import EXIOBASE for each commit, or at least not yet, but we still need to know that our data won't disappear. Storing a copy in e.g. Zenodo would perhaps be sensible - discuss.

Preparing data for linking

To link, we need to choose the correct temporal, spatial, and activity scale. We can't just pick randomly (this methodology already exists :), so we should be creative. Finding where differences matter is always nice. My expectation is that this processed data would be entered into a new database, though this could change. Plus of course we need data reconciliation! This is non-trivial, multiple people are writing PhD theses on it.

System modelling

Need software to implement system constructs. We can choose existing IO ones for now, just need something. Someone should check on whether it is possible to adapt mojo or if it would make more sense to start over. Mojo is very table focused, perhaps the ocelot approach, where data is stored as lists of dictionaries instead of in tables/arrays is more sensible.


Re: Opening a second work track for BONSAI #dataliberation

Miguel Fernández Astudillo
 

Hi

As I see it, there is room for everything. The ontology track is quite revolutionary, but slow to implement. It is rare to find somebody with an understanding of ontologies, a vision for industrial ecology, substantial coding skills and free time. The slowness demotivates and can make the whole thing stall. 

However, there are incremental tasks that can have a more immediate result and are still useful for the development of an open-source well-structured database. For example (and at the risk of being monotematic) correspondence tables in csv are an intermediate result of the ttl versions and can be used by many researchers to ease their work and avoid duplication of efforts. I'd love to improve and document the current implementation of exiobase in brightway (so I can use it in my day to day work!). Or contribute to a data format that can be used to share foreground LCA models (referenced to background data and their URIs).

In summary, I am all in for incrementalism but with a vision of where we want to go.

best,

Miguel








On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 11:29, Benjamin W. Portner <benjamin.portner@...> wrote:
Dear Massimo,

What was expectation, what did you expect to find exactly in our website?
Something remotely related to LCA ;) like process models, lcia methods, or data to build such. I expected that BONSAI was a platform for such things.

You don’t have necessarily to contribute to ontology, if you don’t understand it and doesn’t sound interesting.
It sounds quite interesting as a matter of fact. But right now I have no capacity to dig into complex new topics like that. Maybe I can pull out of my work for your next Hackathon to learn more about it and contribute in that direction.

Based on what Chris suggests above there might be other types of BONSAI-related work where you can contribute to in the near future.
Exactly! That's why I like Chris' proposal :)

Cheers,
Ben


Re: Opening a second work track for BONSAI #dataliberation

 

Dear Massimo,

What was expectation, what did you expect to find exactly in our website?
Something remotely related to LCA ;) like process models, lcia methods, or data to build such. I expected that BONSAI was a platform for such things.

You don’t have necessarily to contribute to ontology, if you don’t understand it and doesn’t sound interesting.
It sounds quite interesting as a matter of fact. But right now I have no capacity to dig into complex new topics like that. Maybe I can pull out of my work for your next Hackathon to learn more about it and contribute in that direction.

Based on what Chris suggests above there might be other types of BONSAI-related work where you can contribute to in the near future.
Exactly! That's why I like Chris' proposal :)

Cheers,
Ben


Re: Opening a second work track for BONSAI #dataliberation

Massimo Pizzol
 

Dear Crhis

 

>> I would like to propose we open a second work track for BONSAI: data liberation. The goal is to allow for more work to be done on interesting research questions and practical challenges in a distributed and democratic fashion.

 

Concrete examples? I have a hard time understanding what you have in mind.

 

Dear Ben

 

>> I thought I was your audience. But after visiting your website I was not so sure.

What was expectation, what did you expect to find exactly in our website? Perhaps you are not our audience right now. Right now there is a lot of focus on ontology because it is a fundamental brick of this Bonsai puzzle, and will allow to make new ground-breaking things later on. This is my understanding and vision at least. Agree the work is slow-progress due to various reasons (including lack of know-how). You don’t have necessarily to contribute to ontology, if you don’t understand it and doesn’t sound interesting. Based on what Chris suggests above there might be other types of BONSAI-related work where you can contribute to in the near future.

 

Massimo

 


Re: Opening a second work track for BONSAI #dataliberation

 

Hi all,

Disclaimer: I'm new to BONSAI. I know nothing about ontologies. And I have probably spent less than 30 minutes reading the available documentation. I guess I qualify as an interested outsider so please take my statements as such.

When I first heard about BONSAI, I was quite excited. I understood it as an open-source, collaborative LCA database which I really believe is needed right now in our field (there are millions of studies and sources for LCA data but they are scattered and sometimes inaccessible). However, my excitement was dampened when I visited your project site for the first time. Everything seemed to be about RDFs, ontologies, triples... I thought to myself that all this stuff is probably necessary to build the all-encompassing database that you guys want to build. But I know nothing about it. And because I don't understand it, there is nothing I can do to help. I am an LCA practitioner with an engineering background and solid programming skills. I thought I was your audience. But after visiting your website I was not so sure. I think Chris' proposal could be way to include guys like me in your process. If that's what you want.

Cheers,
Ben


Re: #bep0002 Proposal open for discussion #bep0002

Massimo Pizzol
 

YES

 

From: <main@bonsai.groups.io> on behalf of "Chris Mutel via Groups.Io" <cmutel@...>
Reply-To: "main@bonsai.groups.io" <main@bonsai.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, 22 February 2020 at 09.48
To: "main@bonsai.groups.io" <main@bonsai.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [bonsai] #bep0002 Proposal open for discussion

 

YES

 

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 at 17:39, romain via Groups.Io <r_s@...> wrote:

 

YES

 

 

 

--

############################

Chris Mutel

Technology Assessment Group, LEA

Paul Scherrer Institut

OHSA D22

5232 Villigen PSI

Switzerland

Telefon: +41 56 310 5787

############################

 

 

 


Re: #bep0002 Proposal open for discussion #bep0002

 

YES

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 at 17:39, romain via Groups.Io <r_s=me.com@groups.io> wrote:

YES
--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################


Re: Call-in details for today's call (BONSAI <> TRASE)

 

Here are the slides from yesterday.

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 at 17:11, Matteo Lissandrini (AAU) <matteo@...> wrote:

Thanks,

are there available also slides (if some slides have been presented that means ) ?

---
Matteo Lissandrini

Department of Computer Science
Aalborg University

http://people.cs.aau.dk/~matteo






________________________________________
From: main@bonsai.groups.io <main@bonsai.groups.io> on behalf of Chris Mutel via Groups.Io <cmutel=gmail.com@groups.io>
Sent: 21 February 2020 16:13:46
To: main@bonsai.groups.io; Michael Lathuillière; Javier Godar; rosa.indenbaum@...
Subject: Re: [bonsai] Call-in details for today's call (BONSAI <> TRASE)

My notes from today's discussion, please respond with any points I missed!

- Trase data is available already, should be examined by bonsai team

- Trase tools should be open access (commitment exists)
- Using python
- Big, distributed team
- Need to clean up and standardize before publishing
- Working on making available via Github

- Trase is willing to make more data available, but want to know what
is actually useful
- Action item for bonsai!

- Possible area of collaboration: Algorithms and models on how to get
to solve (optimization) supply chain problems with imperfect
information

- Blockchain for tracing supply chain impacts?
- Little support from trase administration
- Could be helpful in time series data of changes in trade patterns
- A key question is the "Stickiness" of supply chains (how respond
to outside shocks) (important to know what the relevant temporal scale
is)

Should invite trase team to hackathon!

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 at 13:36, Christopher Mutel <@cmutel> wrote:

Time: Feb 21, 2020 03:00 PM Copenhagen

Join Zoom Meeting
https://zoom.us/j/942489554

Meeting ID: 942 489 554

Agenda:

TRASE presentation (Michael Lathuillière): 30 mins
BONSAI presentation (Chris Mutel): 10 mins
Discussion: 20 mins

--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################


--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################





--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################


Re: #bep0002 Proposal open for discussion #bep0002

romain
 

YES


Re: #bep0002 Proposal open for discussion #bep0002

Miguel Fernández Astudillo
 

yes

(Miguel F. Astudillo)



On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 at 17:10, Bo Weidema <bo.weidema@...> wrote:

YES

Den 2020/02/21 kl. 16.52 skrev romain via Groups.Io:
Dear community members,

BEP002 (https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/blob/master/beps/0002-bonsai-project-community-governance-structure.md) is now open to votes.
The voting period will last one month (Friday the 20th of March).
Simply reply to this discussion thread by "YES" or "NO".
--


Re: Call-in details for today's call (BONSAI <> TRASE)

Matteo Lissandrini (AAU)
 

Thanks,

are there available also slides (if some slides have been presented that means ) ?

---
Matteo Lissandrini

Department of Computer Science
Aalborg University

http://people.cs.aau.dk/~matteo






________________________________________
From: main@bonsai.groups.io <main@bonsai.groups.io> on behalf of Chris Mutel via Groups.Io <cmutel=gmail.com@groups.io>
Sent: 21 February 2020 16:13:46
To: main@bonsai.groups.io; Michael Lathuillière; Javier Godar; rosa.indenbaum@...
Subject: Re: [bonsai] Call-in details for today's call (BONSAI <> TRASE)

My notes from today's discussion, please respond with any points I missed!

- Trase data is available already, should be examined by bonsai team

- Trase tools should be open access (commitment exists)
- Using python
- Big, distributed team
- Need to clean up and standardize before publishing
- Working on making available via Github

- Trase is willing to make more data available, but want to know what
is actually useful
- Action item for bonsai!

- Possible area of collaboration: Algorithms and models on how to get
to solve (optimization) supply chain problems with imperfect
information

- Blockchain for tracing supply chain impacts?
- Little support from trase administration
- Could be helpful in time series data of changes in trade patterns
- A key question is the "Stickiness" of supply chains (how respond
to outside shocks) (important to know what the relevant temporal scale
is)

Should invite trase team to hackathon!

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 at 13:36, Christopher Mutel <@cmutel> wrote:

Time: Feb 21, 2020 03:00 PM Copenhagen

Join Zoom Meeting
https://zoom.us/j/942489554

Meeting ID: 942 489 554

Agenda:

TRASE presentation (Michael Lathuillière): 30 mins
BONSAI presentation (Chris Mutel): 10 mins
Discussion: 20 mins

--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################


--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################


Re: #bep0002 Proposal open for discussion #bep0002

Bo Weidema
 

YES

Den 2020/02/21 kl. 16.52 skrev romain via Groups.Io:

Dear community members,

BEP002 (https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/blob/master/beps/0002-bonsai-project-community-governance-structure.md) is now open to votes.
The voting period will last one month (Friday the 20th of March).
Simply reply to this discussion thread by "YES" or "NO".
--


Re: #bep0002 Proposal open for discussion #bep0002

Michele De Rosa
 

To be clear: 

YES = APPROVED

NO = REJECTED

I vote YES!

 

 


Re: #bep0002 Proposal open for discussion #bep0002

romain
 

Dear community members,

BEP002 (https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/blob/master/beps/0002-bonsai-project-community-governance-structure.md) is now open to votes.
The voting period will last one month (Friday the 20th of March).
Simply reply to this discussion thread by "YES" or "NO".


Re: Call-in details for today's call (BONSAI <> TRASE)

 

My notes from today's discussion, please respond with any points I missed!

- Trase data is available already, should be examined by bonsai team

- Trase tools should be open access (commitment exists)
- Using python
- Big, distributed team
- Need to clean up and standardize before publishing
- Working on making available via Github

- Trase is willing to make more data available, but want to know what
is actually useful
- Action item for bonsai!

- Possible area of collaboration: Algorithms and models on how to get
to solve (optimization) supply chain problems with imperfect
information

- Blockchain for tracing supply chain impacts?
- Little support from trase administration
- Could be helpful in time series data of changes in trade patterns
- A key question is the "Stickiness" of supply chains (how respond
to outside shocks) (important to know what the relevant temporal scale
is)

Should invite trase team to hackathon!

On Fri, 21 Feb 2020 at 13:36, Christopher Mutel <@cmutel> wrote:

Time: Feb 21, 2020 03:00 PM Copenhagen

Join Zoom Meeting
https://zoom.us/j/942489554

Meeting ID: 942 489 554

Agenda:

TRASE presentation (Michael Lathuillière): 30 mins
BONSAI presentation (Chris Mutel): 10 mins
Discussion: 20 mins

--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################
--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################


Opening a second work track for BONSAI #dataliberation

 

I would like to propose we open a second work track for BONSAI: data liberation. The goal is to allow for more work to be done on interesting research questions and practical challenges in a distributed and democratic fashion.
 
The problem
 
We currently have ambitions about all-encompassing database using an ontology and tool chain, both currently under development. This plan has a lot of ideas that are, in my opinion, fundamentally correct, including the use of different kinds of data to develop inventories, storing information in its original form and transparently documenting any transformations, and including actors as fundamental bits of data along with flows and activities. However, the relatively slow progress, specific tool chain, and lack of widespread expertise at the intersection of tools and concepts make it difficult and frustrating for most BONSAI participants to make real contributions - and essentially impossible for outsiders! You can see this clearly in the commit stream to the BONSAI repositories.
 
At the same time, there are stupid barriers in doing industrial ecology and LCA work where BONSAI could make a substantial contribution in the very short term, like common standards for nomenclature, improving data formats, conversion tools, small parametric models for activities, science-based algorithms for merging and reconciling data, and tools for extracting data from published LCA studies.
 
Finally, BONSAI seems to exist as a separate pillar or project, working to some degree with others (e.g. the presentations seen or to come from US EPA, HESTIA, TRASE), but still it's own "team." Probably this is inevitable, to some degree, but such separation means some duplication of effort, as well as effort on many sides to translate across data formats or ontologies. There is enough tribalism in the world already, and, again in my opinion, we are too willing to let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough.
 
A different vision
 
  • BONSAI is the entire LCA/industrial ecology community (or maybe vice-versa). BONSAI reflects a number of different subject domains and methodological approaches, and doesn't try to fit everything into it's own shoebox.
  • Use open stuff already being worked on by others! No more wheels needed. BONSAI is not an individual tree, but an aspen community (but without the cloning part :).
  • Prioritize efforts during and outside of hackathons based on broad input from the community. Incrementalism instead of revolution.
  • Widely used, understood, and damn simple tech choices. See work of Stefan Pauliuk [0] for inspiration.
  • No religious debates on tiny details. Need proof of importance before starting widespread discussion, and big choices can only be made through the BEP process [1], not by a few people in a room somewhere.
 
Next steps
 
Let's talk about it - this is only my perspective, and this proposal (and indeed, BONSAI as a whole) doesn't work without many people participating. Discussion as usual on the mailing list (to keep an open record) under the hashtag #dataliberation.
 
Personally, given my limited time and energy, I will no longer be developing the BONSAI semantic web database work track.
 
[0] http://www.database.industrialecology.uni-freiburg.de/
[1] https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/blob/master/beps/0002-bonsai-project-community-governance-structure.md


Re: Call-in details for today's call (BONSAI <> TRASE)

Matteo Lissandrini (AAU)
 

Hi,
this was not in my calendar for some reason, did I miss something?
When was this organized?

Thanks,
Matteo

---
Matteo Lissandrini

Department of Computer Science
Aalborg University

http://people.cs.aau.dk/~matteo






________________________________________
From: main@bonsai.groups.io <main@bonsai.groups.io> on behalf of Chris Mutel via Groups.Io <cmutel=gmail.com@groups.io>
Sent: 21 February 2020 13:36:11
To: main@bonsai.groups.io; Michael Lathuillière; Javier Godar; rosa.indenbaum@...
Subject: [bonsai] Call-in details for today's call (BONSAI <> TRASE)

Time: Feb 21, 2020 03:00 PM Copenhagen

Join Zoom Meeting
https://zoom.us/j/942489554

Meeting ID: 942 489 554

Agenda:

TRASE presentation (Michael Lathuillière): 30 mins
BONSAI presentation (Chris Mutel): 10 mins
Discussion: 20 mins

--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################


Call-in details for today's call (BONSAI <> TRASE)

 

Time: Feb 21, 2020 03:00 PM Copenhagen

Join Zoom Meeting
https://zoom.us/j/942489554

Meeting ID: 942 489 554

Agenda:

TRASE presentation (Michael Lathuillière): 30 mins
BONSAI presentation (Chris Mutel): 10 mins
Discussion: 20 mins

--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################


Building collaboration with US EPA #communication

Agneta
 

Dear All

We had a meeting with Wes Ingwersen and David Meyer (US EPA) for collaboration possibilities with BONSAI. Here are some of the opportunities we discussed:

1) Convert USEE supply and use data to RDF using Bonsai ontology
2) Link this to Exiobase as an example on how the resolution of Exiobase could be improved with country specific data (supply and use tables)
3) Similary we could test the inclusion of data from external datasets different from traditional LCI data (Eg. data on chemical exposure ) as an example of  interoperability 
 David has relevant experience with testing interoperability of data from based on different ontologies. If interested you can read his paper (see attachment). 

They are keen on joining us on the next hackathon! :) 

Best regards
Agneta


Data group on Transport Energy

Bo Weidema
 

Hi,

Some interesting parallel work going on on transport energy: https://transportenergy.org/

Best regards

Bo