Date   

Re: #bep0002 Proposal open for discussion #bep0002

 

Dear all-

I have added some of these changes in
https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/pull/6.

However, I think we need to have a broader discussion on who and how
to suggest changes. The current language suggest that only authors can
make changes, but maybe we don't want this. One can imagine a worst
case scenario where the authors reject one change, but the rest of the
community wants it - then we are faced with the choice of rejecting
the whole BEP or not.

I would love to hear some options/opinions on this!

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 at 09:32, <@MicDr> wrote:

Great initiative! I think that a default time for discussion should be set and mentioned in the template. A default time could be 3 weeks from the publication of the BEP.

The template might also mention that the editor could modify (extend or shorten) the time depending on specific needs or the activity and liveliness of the discussion. For example, if no discussion occurs for 10 days the editor may propose to close the discussion if a decision is urgent (as perhaps in this case, since this template is already being used), or extend the discussion if there is lack of consensus (e.g. on controversial methodological issues).

The template could also mention that "the editors should never take the role of a judge of whether a suggested change should be implemented or not - it isn't their role to take potentially controversial decisions. (Chris M)"

Michele
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Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
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http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
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Re: #BEP0001 - Community governance through enhancement proposals #bep0001

Michele De Rosa
 

For clarity, this is a discussion on the BEP-0001 BONSAI (BEP) Enhancement Proposal Template. 

The following is a follow up of the discussion started (wrongly) here, where I proposed to include in the template a short description for the procedure to actually implement/reject modifications to the BEPs.

Following Chris' input, I'd summarize the procedure that could be mentioned (depending on the type of BEP) in this proposal as:

  1. BEP result of working groups already reflect some level of consensus, and will have a history of how the specifics came to be. In this case the group is the primary and preliminary place for discussing the proposal, before it is made public.
  2. Once the BEP is public, the authors will implement the suggested changes that they do not object or motivate the rejection on the respective BEP discussion list. Since the proposal has to be agreed by the broader community, it is in the interest of the authors to agree to reasonable change requests - otherwise the proposal won't survive a vote.
  3. Depending on the BEP. the author may chose to invite anyone to suggest a change (via pull request, not a half-baked idea via email) that will be voted by the community. This could lead to vote overload and it should therefore be used only when necessary. Fewer votes would mean that people pay more attention when they come up.
  4. The author or the editor may invite the participant in the discussion to a call with the objective to reach consensus if this has not been reached yet in the within agreed or due time (a proposal on adding a default discussion time was made here).
Michele


Re: #bep0002 Proposal open for discussion #bep0002

Michele De Rosa
 

Great initiative! I think that a default time for discussion should be set and mentioned in the template. A default time could be 3 weeks from the publication of the BEP.

The template might also mention that the editor could modify (extend or shorten) the time depending on specific needs or the activity and liveliness of the discussion. For example, if no discussion occurs for 10 days the editor may propose to close the discussion if a decision is urgent (as perhaps in this case, since this template is already being used), or extend the discussion if there is lack of consensus (e.g. on controversial methodological issues).

The template could also mention that "the editors should never take the role of a judge of whether a suggested change should be implemented or not - it isn't their role to take potentially controversial decisions. (Chris M)"

Michele


Open call for BONSAI NPO board members

 

Dear all-

The legal entity BONSAI, a not for profit organization headquartered in Denmark, supports the efforts of the broader BONSAI project with fund-raising, substantial in-kind contributions, and IT. Pursuant to a decision by the organization's board of directors on March 12, 2019, and in accordance with the recent burst of activity related to the hackathon, we are actively soliciting nominations for two new members to the board of directors. We are looking for passionate people who are motivated to help move the entire BONSAI project forward. Keeping with the BONSAI core values of openness, inclusivity, and respect for different opinions, we are especially interested in candidates who would bring a diversity of locations, backgrounds, and experience to the organization. Board membership is not compensated - everyone is a volunteer.

The new board members will be elected at the next BONSAI general assembly, which will be held on Wednesday, May 8, from 17:00 to 18:00 Central European Time. Please note that participation in the general assembly is limited to BONSAI members (https://bonsai.uno/contribute/ - note that as of today the membership fee has been reduced to €50 for active BONSAI participants), but board candidates do not have to be members.

To nominate yourself, please draft a statement of motivation and a CV/similar, and either respond directly to this email if you want your nomination to be public, or email me at chris.mutel@... to limit your nomination to BONSAI members. 

Please send this call to people you think would be interested!

-Chris Mutel, Chair of the Board


Re: Online #KnowledgeManagement - audit and suggestions for change #knowledgemanagement

 

Dear all-

I created the beginning of a BEP based on Tom's audit here: https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/blob/bep4-communications/beps/0004-bonsai-communication-strategy.md. My idea was to make our ideas a bit more specific by using the BEP to provide details, and also to make us think about alternatives and why we are confidant that one direction is best. However, we can continue to use the #KnowledgeManagement tag, as the BEP is nowhere near ready.

For example, I am not sure why the wiki is the best place to host a getting started guide, or general introductions to B. The webpage not only gives us more freedom in terms of what we can show (no limits on embedded media), but I don't think the wiki provides a substantial ease of use advantage versus e.g. writing markdown and having an automatic processor to create HTML.

Some of these issues are most easily discussed in person, around a big sheet of paper, where we can draw different designs. For example, I don't see why the homepage wouldn't have a little search box allowing you to search to ontology/product list, as well as a dynamic widget that would allow you to do calculation based on the current database state. That would be awesome, and a clear differentiator with other DBs - but impossible on the wiki.

I would prefer to get a clear line between what content goes on the wiki, and what on the web page.


Re: Online #KnowledgeManagement - audit and suggestions for change #knowledgemanagement

Tom
 

The draft getting-started guide is here. It currently describes how I perceive the state-of-affairs to be now (regarding task management, prioritisation etc.). As such, it is not really yet fit-for-purpose. I don't yet know how to contribute toward simple, manageable, useful tasks. So describing this is rather difficult!

In order to be most useful, Romain & I agreed that we want the getting-started page to link directly to specific tasks. But we find those tasks are described in various places in different ways (Wiki, website, hackathon agenda, blog posts etc.). So we realised that this needs to be solved in order for the Getting Started page to function properly. We agreed that GitHub issues are a sensible choice for this. I've dogfooded a suggestion to use them for Bonsai here. And started converting the Wiki task list into Issues in the same repo. An issue relating to completing the getting-started guide is also here.

Other suggestions such as "a sort of toolbox for beginners to bonsai", are beyond my reasonable scope at this time. Great if someone wants to make this, but perhaps tangible Bonsai software contributions could be a higher priority!


#toolbox #toolbox

romain
 

I really like the idea of a beginner's toolbox, with a presentation of tools that are expected to be used to produce relevant outputs for BONSAI.
I find myself sometimes dubitative as to where and how to contribute, as the project is both complex and vast.

But then, the types of deliverable needed in BONSAI are very wide: we need to format raw data, we need pieces of scripts that maybe scrap environmental data from the Internet, that sort of things.

Maybe we should categorize the types of contributions into a few general categories (e.g., raw data and formatting, database inter-operability, etc.) and present what we think is a relevant toolbox.
 
I guess you will have a clearer view about that after the hackathon.

Would not it make sense for such toolbox page to be on bonsai.uno, under a "Getting started" tab?

/romain


Re: Outreach in the buildup to the hackathon

Matteo Lissandrini (AAU)
 

It is like you were describing how a car is made and said "A car as an engine, a steering wheel, brakes, and wheels with Michelin(r) tires"
(Complete aside, and not important, but: as a private person, you
never need to use someone else copyright/trademark/whatever symbols.
You aren't selling anything, there is no question over IP. People do
this in published papers and it drives me crazy!)
Agreed, I wrote it for stressing the point not for IP concerns :)


I think you can safely write there something like "RDF triplestore" or "Semantic Aware DBMS" or "Linked Data Platform" depending on what you really need. Is it just store and query RDF, for instance? Do you need first order logic reasoning? etc..
This is an excellent question! We chose (and Bo has an installed
version at Aalborg of) Jena based on a small survey that we did a few
years ago. For the time being, we are envisioning this as a dumb
triple store, where actual data processing happens externally.
However, this is mostly because I and the other people I have talked
to are much more comfortable writing Python than trying to express
ourselves in SPARQL.

I'm not questioning here the technical choice re the software.
My point is that you are "masking" the functionality you need with the name of a technology that should implement it.
This has 2 effects (i) you commit yourself to a specific software in a place where such decision is not necessary
(ii) your model is missing important information (which is assumed implicitly but it is not so): what functionality you need there.



Depending on your actual needs then, Jena may or may not be the tool you need.\
Let's talk about it at the hackathon!
Sure :)

Btw. Not sure what the relation is between Jena&Python


#bep0002 Proposal open for discussion #bep0002

romain
 

Hello,

the Bonsai enhancement proposal 0002 is now up for discussion: https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/blob/master/beps/0002-bonsai-project-community-governance-structure.md#bep-0002-bonsai-project-community-governance-structure

The outcomes of the discussion will be summarized in the Discussion section of the BEP: https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/blob/master/beps/0002-bonsai-project-community-governance-structure.md#discussion

At the end of the discussion process, which will be reached when all the relevant aspects of the BEP have been covered, a vote will be organized to validate, defer, or reject the enhancement proposal.
 
/romain


Re: Outreach in the buildup to the hackathon

 

On Tue, 12 Mar 2019 at 10:45, Matteo Lissandrini (AAU) <matteo@...> wrote:

Hi Chris,

I've taken a look at your post, very interesting!

One thing is odd to me, you have all these modules that describe their functionality/values, and then you have "Jena database instance".

It is like you were describing how a car is made and said "A car as an engine, a steering wheel, brakes, and wheels with Michelin(r) tires"
(Complete aside, and not important, but: as a private person, you
never need to use someone else copyright/trademark/whatever symbols.
You aren't selling anything, there is no question over IP. People do
this in published papers and it drives me crazy!)

I think you can safely write there something like "RDF triplestore" or "Semantic Aware DBMS" or "Linked Data Platform" depending on what you really need. Is it just store and query RDF, for instance? Do you need first order logic reasoning? etc..
This is an excellent question! We chose (and Bo has an installed
version at Aalborg of) Jena based on a small survey that we did a few
years ago. For the time being, we are envisioning this as a dumb
triple store, where actual data processing happens externally.
However, this is mostly because I and the other people I have talked
to are much more comfortable writing Python than trying to express
ourselves in SPARQL.

Depending on your actual needs then, Jena may or may not be the tool you need.\
Let's talk about it at the hackathon!

Cheers,
Matteo






________________________________
From: main@bonsai.groups.io [main@bonsai.groups.io] on behalf of Chris Mutel via Groups.Io [cmutel=gmail.com@groups.io]
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:37 PM
To: main@bonsai.groups.io
Subject: Re: [bonsai] Outreach in the buildup to the hackathon

Weekly post #3: Modular BONSAI components. Comments and critiques are welcome.


--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################


Re: Outreach in the buildup to the hackathon

Matteo Lissandrini (AAU)
 

Hi Chris,

I've taken a look at your post, very interesting!

One thing is odd to me, you have all these modules that describe their functionality/values, and then you have "Jena database instance".

It is like you were describing how a car is made and said "A car as an engine, a  steering wheel, brakes, and wheels with Michelin(r) tires"

I think you can safely write there something like "RDF triplestore"  or "Semantic Aware DBMS" or "Linked Data Platform" depending on what you really need. Is it just store and query RDF, for instance? Do you need first order logic reasoning? etc..

Depending on your actual needs then, Jena may or may not be the tool you need.

Cheers,
Matteo







From: main@bonsai.groups.io [main@bonsai.groups.io] on behalf of Chris Mutel via Groups.Io [cmutel@...]
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 10:37 PM
To: main@bonsai.groups.io
Subject: Re: [bonsai] Outreach in the buildup to the hackathon

Weekly post #3: Modular BONSAI components. Comments and critiques are welcome.


Re: Online #KnowledgeManagement - audit and suggestions for change #knowledgemanagement

 

Dear all-

I had a very nice talk today with Oleg Lavrovsky, who makes his living as an independent open data consultant (https://datalets.ch/). He organizes most of the open data hackathons in Switzerland, and is active in sustainability data as well, so I think his feedback is worth listening to. Here are the points I noted:

We desperately need a getting-started guide - this should be the first thing one sees, after the small motivation section. We want to communicate from the beginning that each visitor has something to contribute, and that we need their contribution.

As a part of this getting-started guide, it would be worth building a sort of toolbox for beginners to bonsai, like the one found here: http://toolbox.schoolofdata.ch/. The idea is that we will have a bunch of people looking at our site who aren't experts in coding or semantic tech, but who are motivated to participate. If they see a wall of complications, they will just close the tab and move on, but if they have a list of tools with good docs and tutorials that will give them a chance to start contributing in a meaningful way.

In his experience, hackathons work best if there is one focus. In our case, I think it is worth re-emphasizing that the goal of the hackathon is to have a complete working demo that we can show people, and it probably makes sense to focus on getting the existing work packages to be good instead of starting a bunch of the stretch goals (though I have been dreaming of a bunch of BONSAI components: https://chris.mutel.org/bonsai-components.html).

He felt that the hackathon was a good opportunity to already involve more people online, and that there would be an audience if we did more outreach. Online participants need to be able to work independently, which means that we should have some example small projects that people can just claim and work on.

As a follow-up to this, I think it would very good to have a list of projects where we need help - this would allow people to either pick a project, or to get a sense for the kind of projects BONSAI works on, so that they can define their own. Here are some examples I can think of:

  • Simple API that would take barcodes and a region, and spit out an LCA score and contribution analysis.
  • Guess labels from BONSAI product and industry names based on a machine learning classifier. Keeps original data, just adds new columns. Takes CSV or RDF as input. Training data will come from the descriptions and documentation of the ontologies.
  • Extract the car model from https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.est.8b00261 (maybe combining with GREET: https://greet.es.anl.gov/) and make it web-accessible and following BONSAI coding standards.
  • A set of global and regional independent validation data for LCA/MFA, e.g. how much CO2 was produced in 2018, how much land was transformed, how much shipping happened, etc.

A key to hackathon success is to make sure that everyone can make meaningful contributions. Each person should be a champion or leader of their task/deliverable. Key here is fostering a positive and welcoming atmosphere, and being flexible as groups evolve.

One idea that was new to me was to have a data-driven hackathon, where we would be measuring data about the hackathon itself. Oleg and his team have developed https://datalets.ch/dribdat/, and though it is difficult to explain, it is quite cool to see in action. He would be willing to set up an instance for our hackathon.

Finally, we only get one chance to make a first impression, so all our communications should reflect and emphasize our core values, especially our embrace of openness, both in consuming open data, and in making our data available for others. We want people like Oleg to see our website and feel at home, knowing that this is a place where he could make a difference. It isn't easy, which is why we need to start ASAP.

I see that Oleg has joined our list, so he is welcome to add/edit the above points :)


Re: #BEP0001 - Community governance through enhancement proposals #bep0001

 

Sorry, this was supposed to be in response to Romain's email about adding another metadata field.


Re: #BEP0001 - Community governance through enhancement proposals #bep0001

 

This sounds good to me, please submit a PR with the suggested types, and add your name to the authors list!

Still looking for an editor :)


Re: Outreach in the buildup to the hackathon

 

Weekly post #3: Modular BONSAI components. Comments and critiques are welcome.


Re: A formal structure for community governance

 

Sorry, there was a comma at the end of the first link (thanks Romain), here is the correct link: https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/blob/master/beps/0002-bonsai-project-community-governance-structure.md.


BEP0001

romain
 

Hi,
 
in the proposed BEP template (BEP0001), could there be a "type" hashtag in the header? Like in https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0001/#pep-types
 
Since we'll likely be dealing with a wide range of issues, it could make sense to categorize these enhancement proposals in broad categories (e.g., proposed software features, proposed guidelines, etc.). Just an idea.
 
/Romain


A formal structure for community governance

 

Dear all-

I have developed a formal structure for making community decisions, based on the Python enhancement proposal template (PEP) that many other software projects use. You can find the draft here: https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/blob/master/beps/0002-bonsai-project-community-governance-structure.md, and the repository here: https://github.com/BONSAMURAIS/enhancements/.

As eating your own dog food is generally good practice, I propose that we test this system on itself. To do this, someone who is not in my circle of friends would need to volunteer as an editor for BEP 2 (BEP is BONSAI enhancement proposal, and it describes what an editor does).

I look forward to your ideas, suggestions, and critiques! If accepted, we would then use the BEP process for the hackathon as well - it is sometimes a bit of a pain, but I promise it will pay off in the end.


Re: Online #KnowledgeManagement - audit and suggestions for change #knowledgemanagement

Michele De Rosa
 

Thank you very much for this summary and for proposing those action points Tom.

After a chat with Tom, my inputs and proposals are listed below:

About Tom's change proposals:

I fully agree with the following suggestion: the website is a static document with basic general information; the wiki "becomes" the primary destination for up-to-date info. In fact, this is already what is happening. The wiki, perhaps in the "getting started" section, should make this distinction clear, linking to the web-page when mentioned; and yes, the participation fee should also be mentioned.
NOTE: The fee and the cases in which the fee might be waved for contributors will be discussed at the next board meeting (next week).

About the action points:

  1. Agree on making a dedicate wiki "Getting-started" page which includes links to basic resources and information. The info in the current wiki front page could be linked to this page and mentioned as a "what is the purpose of this wiki?" or something like that.
  2. LinkedIn groups: the page of the "Bonsai NGO" is just used by the management for advertising relevant events or outcome of the community. If you have something relevant to our activities that you want to post on our LinkedIn page you are of course more than welcome to contact me. The LinkedIn group was instead born before LinkedIn changed the policy on closed groups, which are now not visible unless one is invited to them. The board will discuss at the next meeting whether we should now close this group completely and inform the member that daily updates are now taking place on this mailing list or if we should just inform that but keep the group. In any case, yes the group.io took over the Linked In group as a main communication mean. 
  3. The content on the google drive will be moved (by me). The static documents (e.g. all the minutes of meetings) will be hosted on an "archive" like section on the website (i.e. static info); the mapping and correspondence file will be converted in a machine readable version and move to the GitHub (by me) asap, as part of the working group on correspondence table ("Group 10" in Chris' pool). If you create a section for each group under Projects on the wiki that could be a good place for hosting them, for example. 
  4. Agree, copies will be deleted from other locations (by me).
  5. Experience gained through previous funding applications by network members can definitely be shared within the network for future applications. Clearly, getting funds to finance also a piece of this big puzzle is a common interest. However, I'd avoid publishing them online since they were mostly not in the name of Bonsai, which doesn't have yet sufficient credentials. I am confident this will change soon. 
  6. Outdated information will be removed from the website and moved to an archive as described in point 3 above. Yet, the content of the strategy and work plan  can still be useful on the web page, that we don't want to empty out of all content. Indeed, the web-page is still an useful "high level" marketing tool, a sort of brochure with more static info. If you have suggestions on updating specific content on the web-page (other than what I have already mentioned) please let me know, they are more than welcome.
  7.  I propose to add a link to the group.io on the wiki in the "getting started" section that you Tom proposed, rather than on bonsai.uno (that already has a link to the wiki, in case someone ends up on the web-page first). On the wiki instead, I propose to (also) gather all link in a "Useful link" section with links to external resources (external to our Bonsamurai GitHub).
About your fuehrer questions: 
  1. I agree that ‘Status and statutes’ will become only statute and include a link to it. For the status we will forward to the wiki. I will take care of the modifications.
  2. As already mentioned, the "getting started" new section that you proposed will also kindly remind the visitors of the page that we have a modest membership fee.
Thank you for this initiative Tom! Further feedback and contributions are very welcome! 

Michele De Rosa


Re: Outreach in the buildup to the hackathon

 

On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 at 13:41, Matteo Lissandrini (AAU) <matteo@...> wrote:
sorry for not filling up the doodle.
I was not actually planning to participate in the GA...
I'm not 100% sure about what is its scope actually.
The general assembly is the annual meeting of the BONSAI non-profit
organization. There is no fixed agenda, nor any proposed agenda yet;
you can read the minutes from previous meetings and the BONSAI
statutes here: https://bonsai.uno/organisation/. We will have more
specifics after the next board meeting. Currently, participation is
limited to BONSAI members; details on membership here:
https://bonsai.uno/contribute/.

BTW, this will be in May, not March :)

Thanks,
Matteo


--
############################
Chris Mutel
Technology Assessment Group, LEA
Paul Scherrer Institut
OHSA D22
5232 Villigen PSI
Switzerland
http://chris.mutel.org
Telefon: +41 56 310 5787
############################